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Topic: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 6304 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #225 –
Quote from: Lods on
I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

...

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

Cerra was one of the issues. Short of a gallop. Underperforming. Slow. Lacks pressure. Doesn't have another position.

The issue with the small forwards is that they are small forwards. They are not midfielders resting forward. They don't play another position.

I wanted to use Cincotta as a 'small forward'. The way it allows us to mix it up and rotate someone who might not be working out of the way.
eg. If Cerra was no good, or if Kennedy was no good. Push him to the goal square and bring Cincotta into the midfield rotation.
You could've done the same with Binns/Lord if you wanted too. Push them up to a wing and let Ollie jump in the guts.

I don't blame the small forwards for not getting the ball.
I blame the MC for picking so many of them and not allowing us to arrest the slide by mixing up our midfield.

The enthusiasm a kid (or kids) provide is another added bonus. Personally i only would've played 1 maybe 2 of the kids.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #226 –
Quote from: Lods on
I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

The only change that would possibly have made a bit of difference was if we'd had DeKoning starting earlier.
Our maligned small forwards were ineffectual because the ball didn't get down there until just before half-time

Binns, Lord and Moir were in the games against West Coast (where we just fell over the line) and St Kilda (where we just didn't)
So how can it possibly be argued they'd have made a difference in a finals match against Brisbane in Brisbane.
They would probably have struggled to match their efforts of the preceeding weeks and we'd have been criticised for throwing them to the wolves.

The argument was.... we had a few returning experienced players who we could mix them in with,
A mix of youth and experienced returning players....as long as they're all fit, was the best selection according to popular theory.

Who?
The two returnees who had most impact were McKay (9 touches) and DeKoning (deemed "not guaranteed to play an entire game".)
We got seduced and excited about a few kids.
It was good experience for them to play the last couple of games
They look like being solid players.
A bit of finals experience may have been good, but that would be the reason to pick them....not because they were ever going to make a difference.

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

A gain in finals experience was going to be the only win from that game.
We were never going to win with any lineup but finding out a bit more about our kids would have been helpful and educational. What happened picking unfit players and the ensuing weird game plans only created more doubt about our coaching and ability to be taken seriously as a contender for the future.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #227 –
Quote from: ratlice on
Does anyone think that Voss is part of the problem?

My only issue with bringing on Vossy as coach was i was afraid he would do the same thing he did at Brisbane.
That is, try for a quick fix, bring in players who perhaps he shouldn't (Fev!) and set the club back as a result.

Not quite the same standard, but bringing in Fantasia was a bit of a worry and a warning sign of perhaps the same thing. But in fairness, every coach seems to get 'one'.

However, since then he and his MC have got me stuffed with their selections. Yes, the continued inclusion of Fantasia is one that sticks out, but its not limited to that.
There are plenty of players that seem to just 'play' regardless of fitness and form. Cerra stands out as an example.
There are players who will be picked to play regardless of how injured and ineffective they are. Charlie playe about 5 games more than he should.....and we got ZERO return from that.

We were a game and a half clear in 2nd position with a huge injury list (and growing) and an easier draw towards the end of the season. Instead of resting players, he ran them into the ground and compounded the problem.

Our last 10 games, we won just 3. Those 3 were the teams that finished in the bottom 3 this year.
IMO, that was mainly due to picking the wrong players at the wrong time.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #228 –
Cincotta is probably one you could question.
Even Zorko questioned it, :D

A month ago he would have been one of the first ones picked.
There's been a few suggestions his form has dropped off a bit.
I hadn't noticed. He still seemed to be getting a fair bit of the ball but his main roll has been a defensive one.
He may have gone away from instructions in recent games
Maybe that's what cost him a spot.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #229 –
Cerra was a very questionable selection Lods, short of a gallop, horribly out of form all season and single position player.  Not an intelligent selection.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #230 –
 
Quote from: kruddler on
My only issue with bringing on Vossy as coach was i was afraid he would do the same thing he did at Brisbane.
That is, try for a quick fix, bring in players who perhaps he shouldn't (Fev!) and set the club back as a result.

Not quite the same standard, but bringing in Fantasia was a bit of a worry and a warning sign of perhaps the same thing. But in fairness, every coach seems to get 'one'.

However, since then he and his MC have got me stuffed with their selections. Yes, the continued inclusion of Fantasia is one that sticks out, but its not limited to that.
There are plenty of players that seem to just 'play' regardless of fitness and form. Cerra stands out as an example.
There are players who will be picked to play regardless of how injured and ineffective they are. Charlie playe about 5 games more than he should.....and we got ZERO return from that.

We were a game and a half clear in 2nd position with a huge injury list (and growing) and an easier draw towards the end of the season. Instead of resting players, he ran them into the ground and compounded the problem.

Our last 10 games, we won just 3. Those 3 were the teams that finished in the bottom 3 this year.
IMO, that was mainly due to picking the wrong players at the wrong time.


It won't happen (at least not in public) but one of the things you would like to see is coaches explaining why they make certain selections.
We have a crack at journalists but the questioning of coaches at press confrences is often wishy-washy.

"Why didn't you play at least some of the youngsters?"
"Why was Cincotta not picked seeing he would have been a good match-up for Zorko"
"Was the plan always to sub out Kennedy"

Season is over, the answers to these type of questions aren't state secrets...but they're things fans would like to hear.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #231 –
Quote from: Professer E on
Cerra was a very questionable selection Lods, short of a gallop, horribly out of form all season and single position player.  Not an intelligent selection.
How many hammies has he done Prof?...ridiculous selection when we had Lord or Binns fit and ready to go...

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #232 –
Quote from: Professer E on
Cerra was a very questionable selection Lods, short of a gallop, horribly out of form all season and single position player.  Not an intelligent selection.

...and struggled when he returned from injury last time. I suspect there was probably some discussion and experience probably won the day in a close decision over Lord.
 

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #233 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
How many hammies has he done Prof?...ridiculous selection when we had Lord or Binns fit and ready to go...
3 this year
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #234 –
Then that's crap coaching and a selfish act from a player - don't put you hand up if you're not 101%.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #235 –
I can't recall seeing Cerra look right all season, he's been a shadow of himself.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #236 –
Quote from: LP on
I can't recall seeing Cerra look right all season, he's been a shadow of himself.

He was probably BOG the cold night against Melbourne when he pinged it.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #237 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 on
How many hammies has he done Prof?...ridiculous selection when we had Lord or Binns fit and ready to go...
Compare the pair

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=4&playerStatus2=A&tid2=4&type=A&pid1=6476&pid2=7246&fid1=S&fid2=S
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #238 –
There's a subtle difference between being "uninjured" and "match fit" (see Docherty) ;)

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #239 –
I think it was a "damned if you do damned if you don't" scenario. You either play seniors with experience who lack match conditioning, or kids who are not yet able to sustain 4 quarters of AFL footy, who may not be up to speed with structures and game plan etc. It's a lose-lose IMO.