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Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #1 –
Quote from: Lods – on
We know how these things end. ::)
Thank you for your service Daniel.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1258230?fbclid=IwAR39uwpP82skUnIZuk45KAjEYlgCHWe_LMizVQqmLZtbUIgz-bFhby-e5YQ
Nice guy but...
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #2 –
Quote from: Lods – on
We know how these things end. ::)
Thank you for your service Daniel.
I came to the same conclusion after about 0.05 seconds reading the title.

I'd be gobsmacked if anything else happened.

Reality should point the finger at why Bri Davey felt the need to leave....and more than a few since. If all they find is Harford is the issue, they are NOT doing a proper review.

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #3 –
Harford is not the problem, he has pretty much been constrained in what he can achieve off the back of toxic events earlier in the club's AFLW / VFLW history.

But that won't necessarily stop Harford wearing the blame, there is a lot of "bitchiness" in AFLW surpassed only by the "cliques", as a club we failed to manage that aspect of AFLW early on and I feel it cost us several key players. "AFLW cliques" are not like a bunch of mates in a footy team.

In men's footy we often say you don't have to be best mates with the bloke next to you but when the siren sounds it's game on and business as usual and you play for those around you like your own life depends on it, ..................... it's not like that at all in AFLW! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #4 –
Because the AFL permitted other clubs to throw buckets of cash at expansion clubs, and one in particular, and we couldn't do anything about it?  Morale must have been sweet when your guns leave for cash, throw your former club under the bus and the guts get ripped from your list....with hardly any chance to rebuild by recruitment or the draft.  A horrible, unbalanced competition.  Harford had no chance this year - none.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #5 –
There is an interesting juxtaposition coming for AFLW, at the moment it's dominated by recruits who want to play the men's game style. But it's only a temporary phenomenon.

The feature of AFLW that made it successful early is likely to massively and rapidly diminish within a generation or two of players.

At that time, the game style will evolve to suit the girls, it won't be a bunch of girls running around pretending to play like the men. They will have a completely separate set of match day team tactics, and if not subject to external interference the rules are also likely to evolve away from the men's game. It'll take a concerted effort from individuals to keep it looking similar to the men's game, but those individuals will rapidly become the minority.

Once the corporates wake up to this and take it seriously they will realise the massive earnings potential, and when the club Administrations get on board it's all over for girls playing footy in man suits.

You can't build an enduring robust national or state level competition based on minority interests, you need the majority on board as supporters and participants.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that when the Federal or State funding dries up some club's withdraw from the competition unless they are to receive ongoing subsidises from the AFL.

Sorry for the cynicism.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #6 –
It's funny LP, my daughter is on the fringes of the AFLW system (she has very close friends involved) and what you talk about is what I see and it's an issue.  I'm not sure what to call it, it comes across as what you called "bitchiness" (I hate that term) but there's clearly a me me me aspect of selfishness to many players and "closed shop" player cliques within the clubs.  This doesn't make for an environment whereby all players pull equally hard on the rope at the same time.  It's really divisive.  Many of these players have fought bloody hard to get where they are, I get the feeling some of them lose sight of the fact that it's teams that win, that individual success is inextricably related to team success.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #7 –
Quote from: LP – on
There is an interesting juxtaposition coming for AFLW, at the moment it's dominated by recruits who want to play the men's game style. But it's only a temporary phenomenon.

Its not only the mens game the try and replicated, its the lingo, the mannerisms, its very noticeable the change from the humble beginnings to now. Be yourselves ladies, create your own thing.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
It's funny LP, my daughter is on the fringes of the AFLW system (she has very close friends involved) and what you talk about is what I see and it's an issue.
In recent years our club has tried to be more inclusive, more balanced, after a less than salubrious start.

Other club's that tend towards a less global/moral approach have actively pursued this minority aspect of AFLW, generating cliques and divides as they go, but they can't survive that way because it's a minority perspective. They are going to burn their social capital very quickly if they don't have almost immediate success.

In the short term it has cost us dearly, but in the long term we should be better off.

Now the other thing to remember at the moment, in the short term, these cliques are not just restricted to on-field! ;)

It's quite bizarre to see AFLW teams and club's shooting themselves in the foot, but they do and will continue to do so in the short term.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #9 –
A common theme here seems to be 'evolution'.
As others allude to, it's probably a little unfair to look at a fledgling competition and expect it to mirror a fully professional league with around a 170 years of development (VFA, VFL, AFL)

I'm also on board with the theory that it may be better to modify aspects of the game as time goes by that will see it similar to, but not identical to, the mens competition.
 

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #10 –
I was half listening to the wireless recently when a comment from a national women’s sport administrator (cricket I think) caught my attention.  It was along the lines “not women playing men’s sport but women playing their version of the sport.”

I have mixed feelings when I see an AFLW player bump an opponent when the ball is out of play.  It’s mildly amusing to see the girls aping an unnecessary part on the men’s game but it’s sad that they think that they have to.

As for the review, it will be disappointing if player retention is not highlighted as a key factor in our failure to consistently feature in the finals.  I don’t know if Harf is the best coach for us but he seems to get the most out of a list that has its share of issues.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #11 –
Just on the player retention aspect...
It is an important issue, and to be honest one that has affected my interest in the side's progression.

But until we had a full complement of sides this movement was always going to occur as new teams entered the competition.
It's something the review should address, but it will be more of a concern if it's still occurring in three to four years time.

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Just on the player retention aspect...
It is an important issue, and to be honest one that has affected my interest in the side's progression.

But until we had a full complement of sides this movement was always going to occur as new teams entered the competition.
It's something the review should address, but it will be more of a concern if it's still occurring in three to four years time.
Player retention is for the most part on the AFL. They made it open slather instead of a controlled, slow burn for the new clubs. They allowed 3 of our best players to be pilfered in the one year (two to the same club). They should have put a rule in place that only one or two players from each club could be pilfered in any say 3 year block, first in best dressed. Coaching aside, by allowing this to happen, they set us back years.
We lost (to name a few):
Harris (good riddance)
Twin 1
Twin 2
Egan
Prespakis
GG
Thats akin to loosing from the mens side say:
H or Charlie
Walsh
Cripps
Kennedy
Fisher
SOS
There are others but do that to any side and they are cactus. This is another large reason why I completely lost interest.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
It's funny LP, my daughter is on the fringes of the AFLW system (she has very close friends involved) and what you talk about is what I see and it's an issue.  I'm not sure what to call it, it comes across as what you called "bitchiness" (I hate that term) but there's clearly a me me me aspect of selfishness to many players and "closed shop" player cliques within the clubs.  This doesn't make for an environment whereby all players pull equally hard on the rope at the same time.  It's really divisive.  Many of these players have fought bloody hard to get where they are, I get the feeling some of them lose sight of the fact that it's teams that win, that individual success is inextricably related to team success.

This is not an unusual phenomenon in sports.

It is not unique to the women's game.

Our current batch of men have a couple in the team as an example.   They're good players too, and it only becomes an issue if they're not or if they start seeing off competitors for their role.

This idea that the girls are only like this is the real issue regarding how we treat men and women. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carlton AFLW Review

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Player retention is for the most part on the AFL. They made it open slather instead of a controlled, slow burn for the new clubs. They allowed 3 of our best players to be pilfered in the one year (two to the same club). They should have put a rule in place that only one or two players from each club could be pilfered in any say 3 year block, first in best dressed. Coaching aside, by allowing this to happen, they set us back years.
We lost (to name a few):
Harris (good riddance)
Twin 1
Twin 2
Egan
Prespakis
GG
Thats akin to loosing from the mens side say:
H or Charlie
Walsh
Cripps
Kennedy
Fisher
SOS
There are others but do that to any side and they are cactus. This is another large reason why I completely lost interest.
You missed Stevens, Jones and Brazzale over that same period.
Which is probably Jack, McGovern and Cottrell equivalents. (Take SOS out of your other list and include Cerra)