Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Defence procurement bungles and wins (Read 12402 times) previous topic - next topic
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #30 –
I wonder what military genius committed to a set-date withdrawal of US forces in direct negotations with the Taliban to the exclusion of the Afghan Govt ...

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #31 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I wonder what military genius committed to a set-date withdrawal of US forces in direct negotations with the Taliban to the exclusion of the Afghan Govt ...
It was Birther Obama wasn't it? ;D
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #32 –
Yes, we have a very stable genius to thank for that.

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #33 –
Quote from: LP – on
So in a war zone, you want to allow thousands of "civilians" unfettered access to a defensive military stronghold!

Thousands of "friendly foreign eyes" inside the airfield boundary!

I suspect there is a reason all the various allied forces used the public airport for evacuations, rather than expose the positions and layout of the military targets.

Ever thought about US passport holders?  Ever considered Bagram was effectively lost anyway once those citizens were cleared?  Kabul was a pathetic FU.  

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I wonder what military genius committed to a set-date withdrawal of US forces in direct negotations with the Taliban to the exclusion of the Afghan Govt ...

The Afghan government?  Who crumbled inside weeks not once putting up any resistance?   Millions stolen ... Ashraf Ghani?  Ring any bells?



Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #35 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Ever thought about US passport holders?  Ever considered Bagram was effectively lost anyway once those citizens were cleared?  Kabul was a pathetic FU.
I thought you were an air man, you're going to keep aircraft on the ground in observational range of thousands of unknowns while refuelling and loading. They used Bagram inside an exclusion zone for the slow process of refuelling and basically spent as little time on the ground in the public airport as possible.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #36 –
Quote from: capcom – on
The Afghan government?  Who crumbled inside weeks not once putting up any resistance?   Millions stolen ... Ashraf Ghani?  Ring any bells?
After the US left the Afghan Govt out of the talks with the Taliban, it was stripped of any status when the US commenced to pull out. That pretty much killed any chance of the army or police force holding the line against the Taliban during the withdrawal and that was what the US needed them to do. The US didn't need them to hold the line for long. Just long enough to cover the withdrawal was all that was needed.

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #37 –
Quote from: LP – on
I thought you were an air man, you're going to keep aircraft on the ground in observational range of thousands of unknowns while refuelling and loading. They used Bagram inside an exclusion zone for the slow process of refuelling and basically spent as little time on the ground in the public airport as possible.

I am .. but you don't need to fly far when a C 17 has a full load range of 4500 kms ... a flight between (for example) Delhi to Bagram is only 1000 kms.  i.e. Full pax load from Bagram, no refuel necessary, return flight to India.  VERY easy.

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #38 –
Quote from: capcom – on
I am .. but you don't need to fly far when a C 17 has a full load range of 4500 kms ... a flight between (for example) Delhi to Bagram is only 1000 kms.  i.e. Full pax load from Bagram, no refuel necessary, return flight to India.  VERY easy.
You know it's not that simple, you know the bureaucracy stops them using the simplest routes. Subject to who is onboard and which countries are involved.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #39 –
So you seriously think India would not be a more than a willing participant in refuelling a US military aircraft?  Do you really understand that passengers don't have to deplane at ALL until their final (U.S) port where they are cleared and processed?   India would be no more than a fuel refill.  I know a helluva LOT more about the operational logistics than you appear to think.

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #40 –
Quote from: capcom – on
So you seriously think India would not be a more than a willing participant in refuelling a US military aircraft?  Do you really understand that passengers don't have to deplane at ALL until their final (U.S) port where they are cleared and processed?  India would be no more than a fuel refill.  I know a helluva LOT more about the operational logistics than you appear to think.
If it's that easy then why didn't it work that way when it had the chance, for example even the flights Australia sent in refuelled on the ground in Bagram.

You might know a lot about aircraft logistics, but you seem wilfully ignorant of global politics.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #41 –
Ever heard of ATC and how it applies to different airports? ... I know you always must have the last word, so you're welcome to it. 

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #42 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Ever heard of ATC and how it applies to different airports? ... I know you always must have the last word, so you're welcome to it.
Yes I've heard of it, no I'm not an expert in it, but I do know that all the rules that apply here in Aust are not universal, in fact nothing that comes out of the UN and other peak bureaucratic bodies is "universal".

If you think that is false, you best go back and revue some of your China posts!

Did you know the person previously in charge of ATC in Vic was quite a good sportsmen, and spent time in charge over in the UK as well? It's surprising just how small the world really is if you travel enough!

As for Bagram, I do not have to speculate on that, my friend's son was on the flights repatriating Australians. His recollections are somewhat alarming about just how complex bureaucracy makes such an effort.
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #43 –
Bagram was a secure airport with the US in command of ATC and the entire airfield.  Kabul was not and at the adjudications of the taliban as to what aircraft received clearance.

"We evacuated Bagram Airfield, which was the dumbest thing anybody could have ever done. At what point do you believe abandoning one of the largest airfields in the world is a good thing knowing that you still needed to move Americans and our allies out of the country?

That will be the original sin of this evacuation. Closing Bagram meant losing access to a secure airfield. This limited the number of air resources as they were moved to other areas outside Afghanistan and resulted in a delayed ability to move personnel. In addition, the evacuation needed to depart from the Kabul Airport, a location the U.S. did not control, which resulted in a chaotic scramble of U.S. personnel and allies out of the country".

Case closed. EOD

Re: Defence procurement bungles and wins

Reply #44 –
I love the way you said you'd give LP the last word only to get in the last word yourself and then close the discussion ;D