Hannah Mouncey

Topic: Hannah Mouncey (Read 37279 times) previous topic - next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #105 – March 27, 2023, 02:19:30 pm

Quote from: Thryleon – on March 27, 2023, 01:41:04 pm

Things might be a bit different today, and that may result in a more balanced match if a competitive male truly faced off against a competitive female,

It might be feasible in some select skill based sports, but it's just untenable in most contact or power based sports for females to be competing next to men, whether the men started off as men or flipped to women.

For example, golf can be conducted on pretty even terms, because a drive and chip for a male might be a drive and 5 iron for a female, but once they are on the green it's Even Steven. If you can putt the lights out, gender can be largely irrelevant.

For other sports that aren't gender neutral the girls deserve the right to have their own league and to be able to compete in that league on equal terms with peers. This whole trans-athlete debate is not about equality at all, it's a massive advantage dressed up as a form of non-discrimination.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #106 – March 27, 2023, 04:50:32 pm

So if Anrich Nortje becomes a trans athlete and wants to play female cricket we are going to have women facing 155km deliveries, sounds a good way to get a lot of female cricketers badly injured or worse.
In some sports like LP pointed out like Golf etc it would work fine but in others it would be a brutal advantage to the former male in most cases.
LP's comments when he says "For other sports that aren't gender neutral the girls deserve the right to have their own league and to be able to compete in that league on equal terms with peers. This whole trans-athlete debate is not about equality at all, it's a massive advantage dressed up as a form of non-discrimination.
LP has Nailed it and nothing further to add....

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #107 – March 27, 2023, 10:53:09 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on March 27, 2023, 04:50:32 pm

So if Anrich Nortje becomes a trans athlete and wants to play female cricket we are going to have women facing 155km deliveries, sounds a good way to get a lot of female cricketers badly injured or worse.
In some sports like LP pointed out like Golf etc it would work fine but in others it would be a brutal advantage to the former male in most cases.
LP's comments when he says "For other sports that aren't gender neutral the girls deserve the right to have their own league and to be able to compete in that league on equal terms with peers. This whole trans-athlete debate is not about equality at all, it's a massive advantage dressed up as a form of non-discrimination.
LP has Nailed it and nothing further to add....

And what are the chances of Nortje deciding that he’s really female? Would he make more money playing cricket as a she? Would he even be able to play cricket competitively after gender reassignment?

170 Australians identified as transgender in the 2016 census. That’s probably a gross underestimate but, even if it was 170,000, that’s a minuscule percentage of our population. Even so, of my projected 100,000 male to female transgender folk, how many would have the ability and desire to play competitive sport?

I don’t think that transgender females should be competing against biological females and I don’t think many transgender males would have a competitive advantage over biological males. Some transgender females, Hannah Mouncey for example, and some activists maintain that not allowing transgender females to take part in female sport is discrimination. It probably is but, as others have suggested, it’s justifiable discrimination because it involves health and safety and fairness.

I reckon that at least 95% of transgender females have absolutely no desire to use their male physique to gain an advantage in any competitive sport. Of the remainder, I doubt very much that any were motivated to transition by the lure of making their fortune beating up on female athletes.

In other words, transgender athletes gaining an unfair advantage over biological females is a non-issue. By all means ban transgender athletes from gendered competitions. Sadly, anti-transgender hysteria provides fertile ground for neo-nazi anti-LBQTI+ propaganda.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #108 – March 28, 2023, 01:34:28 am

People take massive risks and do horrible things for profit all the time, even start wars killing millions.

How many so inclined out of the planets billions are needed to destroy the integrity of female sport, even just one of every 10M is probably way too many?

Even without equal pay we've already seen transgender athletes banned because they dominate, it's not hypothetical, it already happening which is the real reason for this debate. I don't think weightlifting, swimming and basketball think it's hysteria!

Allowing transgender athletes in power sports simply because of the radicals attached to the debate would be a second wrong, not a right.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #109 – March 28, 2023, 06:48:24 am

Quote from: DJC – on March 27, 2023, 10:53:09 pm

And what are the chances of Nortje deciding that he’s really female? Would he make more money playing cricket as a she? Would he even be able to play cricket competitively after gender reassignment?

170 Australians identified as transgender in the 2016 census. That’s probably a gross underestimate but, even if it was 170,000, that’s a minuscule percentage of our population. Even so, of my projected 100,000 male to female transgender folk, how many would have the ability and desire to play competitive sport?

I don’t think that transgender females should be competing against biological females and I don’t think many transgender males would have a competitive advantage over biological males. Some transgender females, Hannah Mouncey for example, and some activists maintain that not allowing transgender females to take part in female sport is discrimination. It probably is but, as others have suggested, it’s justifiable discrimination because it involves health and safety and fairness.

I reckon that at least 95% of transgender females have absolutely no desire to use their male physique to gain an advantage in any competitive sport. Of the remainder, I doubt very much that any were motivated to transition by the lure of making their fortune beating up on female athletes.

In other words, transgender athletes gaining an unfair advantage over biological females is a non-issue. By all means ban transgender athletes from gendered competitions. Sadly, anti-transgender hysteria provides fertile ground for neo-nazi anti-LBQTI+ propaganda.

Neo-nazi?

There is a very different scenario to a fascist regime and being against transgenderism. I personally don't view the avenue as being healthy for anybody because it involves not accepting your body and self mutilation on a level that I personally deem to be unscientific in the way its diagnosed and then represented.

The root to happiness is accepting things for what they are particularly when it comes to body image and for some reason trans is one avenue where people cannot accept their body for what it is and everyone is forced to comply. Not everyone will be a supermodel, and not everyone is gifted with athletic abilities. Some are born autistic but that doesn't mean they can be something they aren't, and it also means that you embrace the body you were gifted with rather than fight against it. There are some grey spots in that mix but they're outliers and rather than go into this avenue where people are choosing what gender they are, we should be a little more understanding of their plight rather than having to have them with labels of transgenderism.

I recognise that some people have a belief that they are in the wrong body but this belief is an identity struggle and not capable of being truly tested and is subjective not objective in how its being applied and then you simply have people play acting and donning some labels rather than appreciating the physiological experience of being a gender and what that means.

I am a firm believer that the biological experience is more capable of shaping someone's identity that anything else and I entertained the transgender element of identity to a point and then realised that its social engineering dressed in mental health wellness rather than a true road to happiness and the more society fights people on this front the worse off we are.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #110 – March 28, 2023, 09:07:42 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on March 28, 2023, 06:48:24 am

Neo-nazi?

There is a very different scenario to a fascist regime and being against transgenderism. I personally don't view the avenue as being healthy for anybody because it involves not accepting your body and self mutilation on a level that I personally deem to be unscientific in the way its diagnosed and then represented.

The root to happiness is accepting things for what they are particularly when it comes to body image and for some reason trans is one avenue where people cannot accept their body for what it is and everyone is forced to comply. Not everyone will be a supermodel, and not everyone is gifted with athletic abilities.

Neo-nazis are a sad group who seem to believe that anything or anyone different to them and their beliefs is wrong/bad and to be opposed, denigrated or even destroyed. Neo-nazis and hard Right Fundamentalists have much in common - a deeply fearful, angry and condemning group of malcontents... dangerous malcontents, and anything they can grab on to that is different to their clinically warped and narrow view will be used to further their own repulsive/anti-humanitarian/anti-acceptance/disrespectful dogmas.

The key word in your second paragraph, 3 Leos, is body 'image.' For transgender folks, and the like, it is far more than image, it's identity. And of course, like many things, there is a spectrum of identity. Somewhat like a job you have that you have little or no connection with, you seek to find a job that suits you better (or run the risk of sinking into depression or avoidance)... a very simplistic example, but one that may help everyday folks to understand the dilemma of folks born in one gender, but identify, deeply and authentically, with a different identity... in time they may find that changing does not help, but most find that it does. I have a few people in my life who've changed gender to suit their true identity and all have found meaning and even happiness in having made the change. Accepting 'difference' in so many areas of human existence has been a challenge for humans, for eons. Acceptance is about respect for the other.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #111 – March 28, 2023, 10:05:41 am

Quote from: Baggers – on March 28, 2023, 09:07:42 am

Neo-nazis are a sad group who seem to believe that anything or anyone different to them and their beliefs is wrong/bad and to be opposed, denigrated or even destroyed. Neo-nazis and hard Right Fundamentalists have much in common - a deeply fearful, angry and condemning group of malcontents... dangerous malcontents, and anything they can grab on to that is different to their clinically warped and narrow view will be used to further their own repulsive/anti-humanitarian/anti-acceptance/disrespectful dogmas.

The key word in your second paragraph, 3 Leos, is body 'image.' For transgender folks, and the like, it is far more than image, it's identity. And of course, like many things, there is a spectrum of identity. Somewhat like a job you have that you have little or no connection with, you seek to find a job that suits you better (or run the risk of sinking into depression or avoidance)... a very simplistic example, but one that may help everyday folks to understand the dilemma of folks born in one gender, but identify, deeply and authentically, with a different identity... in time they may find that changing does not help, but most find that it does. I have a few people in my life who've changed gender to suit their true identity and all have found meaning and even happiness in having made the change. Accepting 'difference' in so many areas of human existence has been a challenge for humans, for eons. Acceptance is about respect for the other.

Baggers, where it starts to become problematic for me is that it is the facet of being transgender that is the identity that they seek, not necessarily the fact that they identify as a gender they were not born as and identity politics is just one facet of it. Its all very subjective, and not very observable. I have seen people convince themselves they are happy or miserable based on various factors, and ultimately its all very feeling based. Where is the objective science in this? The answer is, that there isnt. I can cope with a guy wearing a dress, and changing their name. Its all a bit weird, but thats cool, but when I am forced to label someone who clearly isnt a female a female, then it starts to become really difficult to accept. I will treat the people they way they are asking and label them female, or she or whatever because I am not mean spirited, but its not going to change my opinion and an anonymous forum like this one, is one of the few places you can air the view without being subject to almost becoming a social outcast, which is just a greater symptom of problem we are facing in the modern world.

We will rehash a lot of debate about this stuff if we continue down this discussion, and I am happy to agree to disagree on the subject matter, but Neo Nazism isnt having an opposing view, its making people comply with it and not being able to share their own thoughts.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #112 – March 28, 2023, 11:07:31 am

You are safe here Thry, unlike those 9 year old Christian kids in Nashville.
Can we label the shooter mentally ill or is that offensive?

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #113 – March 28, 2023, 11:13:45 am

Quote from: Baggers – on March 28, 2023, 09:07:42 am

The key word in your second paragraph, 3 Leos, is body 'image.' For transgender folks, and the like, it is far more than image, it's identity.

Nature doesn't deliver a choice @Baggers , the choice is delivered by humans using technical, social and political constructs. Part of this protest might well be less than honourable, but that can't be used to dismiss or ignore genuine concerns.

As for the identity / body image scenario, again it's not a natural choice, it's something we are presented with at gestation. What is offered now is a modification, it could be argued that humanity has taken various sexualities and turned them into genders. Then there is the idea change can bring happiness, but does it or does it just deliver a different type of unhappiness?

My concern, and I think based on the human history it's pretty well justified, is that if there is a way to leverage or manipulate a situation for personal gain then some will always be willing to give it a try. The idea that is impossible, too hard or a only a very small risk is already contradicted by what we read happening. The motivation and opportunity is not going to diminish as technology improves and the reward increases.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #114 – March 28, 2023, 01:28:52 pm

Quote from: madbluboy – on March 28, 2023, 11:07:31 am

You are safe here Thry, unlike those 9 year old Christian kids in Nashville.
Can we label the shooter mentally ill or is that offensive?

Not at all offensive to me. Mental illness is never an excuse or justification for causing harm to others.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #115 – March 28, 2023, 02:30:27 pm

The father of a transgender child called the ABC recently. He spoke about how his child had been bullied throughout their school life and was effectively being bullied by the anti-transgender agenda being pushed by some religious and political groups.

He made the point that if someone decides that they have the wrong gender, that should be their business and their business alone.

I don’t want to talk about nazi ideology other than to point out that the nazis who attended the Parliament House protest weren’t there to support transgender rights.

Their modus operandi is to pick issues that concern some folk - multiculturalism, vaccination, mask wearing, homosexuality, “freedom”, nationalism, big government, etc - and use them to promote their hateful agenda.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #116 – March 28, 2023, 02:41:15 pm

It's a bit of a catch 22.
Nazis...
You don't want to see them because of their hateful ideologies.
You do want to see them so you know who, and where they are.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #117 – March 28, 2023, 04:21:39 pm

Quote from: DJC – on March 28, 2023, 02:30:27 pm

He made the point that if someone decides that they have the wrong gender, that should be their business and their business alone.

I think we would universally agree.

But decisions like that do have life long consequences, and a child who begins the process of transition as a teenager is quite different from an adult male or even an adult male athlete transitioning to become a female athlete.

I have no problem with individuals transitioning, but males becoming females then stealing opportunity, fame, fortune and glory from the girls is a step too far!

Everyday we have to make decisions decisions that alter or limit our future options. The decision to transition in gender is just one of them, but nothing in nature rules that a decision like that or any other decision comes free of consequence.

For all this anti-transgender rhetoric, I find it interesting that we hear and see nothing from the media about the Misandrist R&D into Parthenogenesis, which proceeds overseas unrestricted to eliminate male gametes from the fertilisation chain completely, all sponsored by a lesbian billionaire.

But people would never go that far, it's too difficult, it'll never happen!

PS: A devils advocate question, based around the concept of quotas, many which are now legalities in workplaces. If a transitioned individual is employed or voted into a position of politic advocacy, which side of the ledger do they fall?

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #118 – March 28, 2023, 05:05:24 pm

And what are the chances of Nortje deciding that he’s really female? Would he make more money playing cricket as a she? Would he even be able to play cricket competitively after gender reassignment?

Could be any former male quick bowler sending them down at high speed, if he wants to be female and compete in a female comp it has nothing to do with how much money he wants to make and be all about living his life as a female.

I presume the medical procedures would leave his arms and legs alone and adjust/remove the appropriate other equipment....

so I couldnt see why he physically couldnt run in and bowl.

The ICC seem to think transgender cricketers can play competitively....if you believe the following...

The ICC's transgender policy is based on International Olympic Committee guidelines, and allows trans women to play women's cricket at international level if their testosterone level has been under ten nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months, and stays that way during competition.

There is no way I would want my daughter playing cricket vs a transgender player playing with such a physical advantage and making it a more dangerous sport than it already is and that goes for any other sport where the advantages sit outside the norm of the game.

Re: Hannah Mouncey

Reply #119 – March 29, 2023, 10:51:08 am

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on March 28, 2023, 05:05:24 pm

And what are the chances of Nortje deciding that he’s really female? Would he make more money playing cricket as a she? Would he even be able to play cricket competitively after gender reassignment?

Could be any former male quick bowler sending them down at high speed, if he wants to be female and compete in a female comp it has nothing to do with how much money he wants to make and be all about living his life as a female.

I presume the medical procedures would leave his arms and legs alone and adjust/remove the appropriate other equipment.... so I couldnt see why he physically couldnt run in and bowl.

The ICC seem to think transgender cricketers can play competitively....if you believe the following...

The ICC's transgender policy is based on International Olympic Committee guidelines, and allows trans women to play women's cricket at international level if their testosterone level has been under ten nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months, and stays that way during competition.

There is no way I would want my daughter playing cricket vs a transgender player playing with such a physical advantage and making it a more dangerous sport than it already is and that goes for any other sport where the advantages sit outside the norm of the game.

I watched that "You can't ask that" program on TV a while back and learnt quite a bit about transgender folk. I was not game to ask the two transgender women I used to worked with! Apparently, some folk transition while keeping their wobbly bits intact. It's a chemical/hormone process rather than surgical. Those who do undergo surgery also have hormone treatment. I'm speculating here but it wouldn't surprise me if that treatment has an impact on athletic performance.

I don't think that transgender females who transitioned after puberty should be able to take part in women's sport where size and strength provides an advantage. My point is that transgender females who want to play women's sport will be few and far between.