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Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4395 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: tonyo – on

He spent the whole weekend with the European contingent, then comes back with a different play.   I have no doubt they would have circled the wagons around him and agreed to a new strategy.

All of Europe has a massive stake in how the Ukraine thing pans out, so there is no way known that the other European leaders would just sit back and see whether or not Trump and Zelensky can play nicely with one another.    They will definitely have a hand on the Ukraine rudder, especially if they intend to send in a peace-keeping force.

Spot on. He would have been given a quick lesson in how to 'play' Trump... 'flatter him, and give him something to boast about believing he has 'won.' And let's get this invasion/war over with.'

Maybe they are playing him (even though i think its the other way around) and maybe Trump is just a big foul mouthed clown BUT if this 'clown' manages to negotiate an end to this war within his first 2 months in office regardless of how he does it, it highlights clearly the difference to the previous administration who failed to make any inroads in the last 4 years.      

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4396 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: tonyo – on

He spent the whole weekend with the European contingent, then comes back with a different play.   I have no doubt they would have circled the wagons around him and agreed to a new strategy.

All of Europe has a massive stake in how the Ukraine thing pans out, so there is no way known that the other European leaders would just sit back and see whether or not Trump and Zelensky can play nicely with one another.    They will definitely have a hand on the Ukraine rudder, especially if they intend to send in a peace-keeping force.

Spot on. He would have been given a quick lesson in how to 'play' Trump... 'flatter him, and give him something to boast about believing he has 'won.' And let's get this invasion/war over with.'

Don't forget that Aurangzeb tried to stand over Zelenskyy during his first term as POTUS.  Zelenskyy dealt with him very convincingly then and will do so again.  No doubt the European powers would have worked through the issues with Zelenskyy but he doesn't need lessons in how to deal with a cognitively impaired narcissist.

The European powers know that they cannot rely on trust the USA for at least the next four years and Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, has unveiled a five-point plan called "ReArm Europe" that will unlock up to 800 billion euros to rebuild Europe’s arsenals, defense industrial base, and overall security, to guard against the longstanding threat from the east and the emerging threat from the west.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4397 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Looks like Zelensky has rolled over after the USA pulled the plug on further aid, conceded to Trump and is willing to work under him, he wants to call a ceasefire and in return Trump has said he appreciates Zelensky's comments and said he has been talking to Russia who also want to work towards peace. If I was a Ukranian Id be moving be moving next door to Poland which is about the best place to live in Europe because you are about to be sold out...

I don't reckon it's that simple.  I think Zelensky may have had a crash course in Trump-wrangling from his European buddies over the weekend.

"Blow some smoke up his ass and make it look like he's the boss"........
We will see who is playing who when any peace agreement takes place and what the asking price is from Putin, if he gets to keep
all or part of the land he has taken and Ukraine have to withdrawal from Russia or conversely Ukraine retain their original borders then we will know who conceded. My money is on new borders and Russia keeping the Donbas.....plus I dont see Putin agreeing to any NATO peacekeeping troops on his borders unless its made up of countries he has some relationship with.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4398 –
The USA stock market has crashed so badly that it's almost as if the country is being run by a convicted felon who has been bankrupted six times.  Oh, wait ...
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4399 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The USA stock market has crashed so badly that it's almost as if the country is being run by a convicted felon who has been bankrupted six times.  Oh, wait ...

as opposed to being run by a senile retard that couldnt get out a sentence and didnt know what day it was.

The billionaire ‘felon’ is an upgrade !

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4400 –
Biden had a great relationship with Putin... I mean Zelensky.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4401 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: DJC – on
The USA stock market has crashed so badly that it's almost as if the country is being run by a convicted felon who has been bankrupted six times.  Oh, wait ...

as opposed to being run by a senile retard that couldnt get out a sentence and didnt know what day it was.

The billionaire ‘felon’ is an upgrade !

Tell that to the stock market.  
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4402 –
Trump is only an "upgrade" if you think dogsh1t is an upgrade on catsh1t. And there's no need for the scare quotes around "felon." He is exactly that, many times over.

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4403 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Trump is only an "upgrade" if you think dogsh1t is an upgrade on catsh1t. And there's no need for the scare quotes around "felon." He is exactly that, many times over.

Its amazing really to be a convicted ‘felon’ and still be elected by the people to run the most powerful nation. There wouldnt be many who can say they accomplished that. 

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4404 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Its amazing really to be a convicted ‘felon’ and still be elected by the people to run the most powerful nation. There wouldnt be many who can say they accomplished that. 

It's not at all amazing. The vote was not a ringing endorsement for Trump, it was quite clearly a vote for change for change's sake, because the Democrats long ago abandoned the working class. The Dems are totally sh1te, and the grievances against them are legit, but the GOP is worse and are nowhere near what the US needs. Trump's popularity is already on the slide, as is the support for his "policies."

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4405 –
Quote from: shawny – on
..................... Trump is just a big foul mouthed clown BUT if this 'clown' manages to negotiate an end to this war within his first 2 months in office regardless of how he does it,
Forcing a victim to surrender is not negotiating an end.

Red Trump is victim blaming, aka,........... Gaslighting.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4406 –
Quote from: shawny – on
as opposed to being run by a senile retard that couldnt get out a sentence and didnt know what day it was.

The billionaire ‘felon’ is an upgrade !
Fact check;

Under Biden's Administration The Economist (aka The Billionaire's Newspaper) rated the USA as the world's leading economy two years running.

Today The Economist (aka. The Billionaire's Newspaper) warned of the USA under Red Trump's tariff regime was heading towards imminent financial collapse. Red Trump stuck a fork in the US Economy in record time, as he would say very quickly actually. Even Heir Musk was heard on a podcast overnight suggesting things haven't gone as expected.

If that wasn't bad enough, Trump's "Drill Baby Drill" incentive might well push prices down in the short term to benefit the US public, but the expert consensus is the short term drop will bankrupt many US producers ultimately leaving the USA with an even greater dependency on OPEC and costing hundreds of thousands of US jobs. Party it up while you still can! There is a solid foundation for this belief, because it's all happened before, I suppose Red Trump doesn't read much history! :o All this is why the USA historically deals with OPEC to restrict oil production and control the barrel price, not too high or too low. Too low is bad because as demand falls, production increases, more barrels generate the same income at a lower unit price, the debt loaded US producers can no longer service debt as supply exceeds demand and they go bust.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4407 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: shawny – on
..................... Trump is just a big foul mouthed clown BUT if this 'clown' manages to negotiate an end to this war within his first 2 months in office regardless of how he does it,
Forcing a victim to surrender is not negotiating an end.

Red Trump is victim blaming, aka,........... Gaslighting.


Yep
It's not really negotiating a peace...it's negotiating a surrender.
Any 'loser' can do that. ;)

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4408 –
Something that I'd forgotten:

"On December 5, 1994, leaders of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Russian Federation met in Budapest, Hungary, to pledge security assurances to Ukraine in connection with its accession to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapons state. The signature of the so-called Budapest Memorandum concluded arduous negotiations that resulted in Ukraine’s agreement to relinquish the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal, which the country inherited from the collapsed Soviet Union, and transfer all nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantlement. The signatories of the memorandum pledged to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force. Russia breached these commitments with its annexation of Crimea in 2014 and aggression in eastern Ukraine, bringing the meaning and value of security assurance pledged in the Memorandum under renewed scrutiny."

According to Steven Pifer, a former US diplomat who participated in the talks, it was understood that if there was a violation, it would be incumbent on the US and the UK to respond  That response was not explicitly defined, but Pifer notes that: "there is an obligation on the United States that flows from the Budapest Memorandum to provide assistance to Ukraine, and […] that would include lethal military assistance".

I suspect that Ukraine now regrets surrendering its nuclear arsenal but then, who would have ever predicted that a multiple bankrupt, convicted felon with cognitive issues would lie his way to the presidency of the USA.  The return of the Russian Federation to dictatorship and territorial aggression seemed very unlikely too. 

It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)

Reply #4409 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Something that I'd forgotten:

"On December 5, 1994, leaders of the United States, the United Kingdom, and the Russian Federation met in Budapest, Hungary, to pledge security assurances to Ukraine in connection with its accession to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear-weapons state. The signature of the so-called Budapest Memorandum concluded arduous negotiations that resulted in Ukraine’s agreement to relinquish the world’s third-largest nuclear arsenal, which the country inherited from the collapsed Soviet Union, and transfer all nuclear warheads to Russia for dismantlement. The signatories of the memorandum pledged to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity and inviolability of its borders, and to refrain from the use or threat of military force. Russia breached these commitments with its annexation of Crimea in 2014 and aggression in eastern Ukraine, bringing the meaning and value of security assurance pledged in the Memorandum under renewed scrutiny."

According to Steven Pifer, a former US diplomat who participated in the talks, it was understood that if there was a violation, it would be incumbent on the US and the UK to respond  That response was not explicitly defined, but Pifer notes that: "there is an obligation on the United States that flows from the Budapest Memorandum to provide assistance to Ukraine, and […] that would include lethal military assistance".

I suspect that Ukraine now regrets surrendering its nuclear arsenal but then, who would have ever predicted that a multiple bankrupt, convicted felon with cognitive issues would lie his way to the presidency of the USA.  The return of the Russian Federation to dictatorship and territorial aggression seemed very unlikely too.

*Pysch*