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Re: The Music Thread

Reply #30 –
My niece was a reasonably successful musician who had residential gigs at several large hotels in Australia and Japan.  She realised that she couldn’t keep that up forever and became a train driver and a very highly-regarded singing teacher (she’s a psychologist now).

The point to all of this is that she regarded Unchained Melody as one of the most perfect songs of all time and Bobby Hatfield as having one of the purest singing voices.

It’s always worth digging it out of the playlist for another listen, but I can’t help wondering how it would have gone with Bill Medley chiming in with harmonies 🤔
“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #31 –
Lots of folks have covered Unchained Melody over the years, but Hatfield's is far and away the best version.
It's a great song
The funny thing is that even the instrumental versions of it are great tunes.

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #32 –
As an example of 'musicians without power'....my 'go to' is Nirvana Unplugged.
Complete 180 to anything they were doing at the time, but turned into perhaps their greatest album as a result.
You saw a completely different side of them, completely stripped back, 100% delivered.

I've seen Foo Fighters do similar, playing an acoustic set at the Sydney Opera House as the 'acoustic tour' from the double album In Your Honour - (half acoustic / half rock).

Wouldn't be too many 'modern artists' that could pull that off.

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #33 –
Krudd are you seriously suggesting that if a singer doesn't have an instrument and/or write their own music they are not a musician? 

How many of them wrote their own music? How many of them can play an instrument? Musicians?? Not really

You're kidding or taking the Pi55.

Elvis could play the guitar, but didn't write anything, so is he a muso?  All the Motown hits - Diana Ross and the Supremes, nah they only sang so they can't be musos.  The first violin the in MSO didn't write Beethoven's Fifth - not a muso as they can only play the violin.

Writing music is hard and a very different skill to playing it. Writing commercial pop is very hard. Even harder when you can't read it (Beatles, Hendrix, Clapton). 

Bieber plays the piano, but doesn't write music - is he a muso or not?  Miley Cyrus the same.  Different styles of music can be appreciated by the same person.  Nothing wrong with liking Spice Girls (dubious talent) and Nirvana.

Would Bob Dylan make it today? He probably has, given the number of people he has inspired.

But imo the whole industry changed mid-late 90s But this is what music does. It draws and inspires from different cultures and thinking, cultural issues, development of instruments and creation of new instruments, the growth and change of artists outlooks (Nick Cave's Birthday Party stuff v his Boatman's Call album).  Bach was popular music of his time, as was Mozart, Joplin, Louis Armstrong etc.  The 60s would be hard to imagine without its music - that was a pretty big change.  As was the idea of musos getting compensated properly for their recordings.

They do say that in many cases your music tastes get 'stuck' once you hit your 30s.

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #34 –
I'm going to summarise a little.  Video killed the radio star.

Ugly stars still make it.  Sports is much the same. Ugly players don't get the accolades.

As for talent, it comes in all shapes.  I don't care for a lot of it, but even auto tune has its place, same with loops, same with beats.



These people are creative entertainers.  They fuse beats and melodies in ways others haven't before.  That doesn't mean they couldn't do it without the electronics, it would be more challenging.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Lots of folks have covered Unchained Melody over the years, but Hatfield's is far and away the best version.
It's a great song
The funny thing is that even the instrumental versions of it are great tunes.


Virtually impossible to tell the difference between the studio version and the live version. Though the live version strings were also amazing.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: Lods – on
Lots of folks have covered Unchained Melody over the years, but Hatfield's is far and away the best version.
It's a great song
The funny thing is that even the instrumental versions of it are great tunes.


Virtually impossible to tell the difference between the studio version and the live version. Though the live version strings were also amazing.

I was talking more about some of the big orchestra covers of the song, sometimes by symphony orchestras.

One of the features of 'Unchained Melody' is the use of strings.
Lots of 60s songs had this 'musical interlude' featuring violins, cellos etc

Burt Bacharach who was one of the premier songwriters of the period used strings extensively in his compositions.
They have that kind of emotional, sometimes uplifting, aspect.
I'm not familiar enough with modern music to say they're not used very much, but I'm guessing thats the case.

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #37 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Virtually impossible to tell the difference between the studio version and the live version. Though the live version strings were also amazing.

I was talking more about some of the big orchestra covers of the song, sometimes by symphony orchestras.

One of the features of 'Unchained Melody' is the use of strings.
Lots of 60s songs had this 'musical interlude' featuring violins, cellos etc

Burt Bacharach who was one of the premier songwriters of the period used strings extensively in his compositions.
They have that kind of emotional, sometimes uplifting, aspect.
I'm not familiar enough with modern music to say they're not used very much, but I'm guessing thats the case.

Bacharach/David, now there was a songwriting duo.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #38 –
I recently rediscovered Astrud Gilberto ... and I realised why my older brothers were so enraptured by her in the mid 1960s  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVdaFQhS86E

Interestingly, Astrud wasn't a professional singer but volunteered to sing a duet with her husband.  That launched her career as the face of bossa nova but also led to her manipulation and exploitation by the music industry.

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #39 –
Quote from: dodge – on
Krudd are you seriously suggesting that if a singer doesn't have an instrument and/or write their own music they are not a musician? 

How many of them wrote their own music? How many of them can play an instrument? Musicians?? Not really

You're kidding or taking the Pi55.

Elvis could play the guitar, but didn't write anything, so is he a muso?  All the Motown hits - Diana Ross and the Supremes, nah they only sang so they can't be musos.  The first violin the in MSO didn't write Beethoven's Fifth - not a muso as they can only play the violin.

Writing music is hard and a very different skill to playing it. Writing commercial pop is very hard. Even harder when you can't read it (Beatles, Hendrix, Clapton). 

Bieber plays the piano, but doesn't write music - is he a muso or not?  Miley Cyrus the same.  Different styles of music can be appreciated by the same person.  Nothing wrong with liking Spice Girls (dubious talent) and Nirvana.

Would Bob Dylan make it today? He probably has, given the number of people he has inspired.

But imo the whole industry changed mid-late 90s But this is what music does. It draws and inspires from different cultures and thinking, cultural issues, development of instruments and creation of new instruments, the growth and change of artists outlooks (Nick Cave's Birthday Party stuff v his Boatman's Call album).  Bach was popular music of his time, as was Mozart, Joplin, Louis Armstrong etc.  The 60s would be hard to imagine without its music - that was a pretty big change.  As was the idea of musos getting compensated properly for their recordings.

They do say that in many cases your music tastes get 'stuck' once you hit your 30s.

*deep breath*

Music changed in the 90's because fo technology.
Singers don't need to be able to hold a tune nowadays. Auto-tune will fix it.
Most of the time, the producers do it without even telling the artist.

So.....if the singers don't write their own music......and they can't sing without autotune fixing it....and they don't play an instrument.....what about them makes them a musician? Artist, entertainer....sure. Musician? Not really.
I'm not sure what you have a beef with calling someone an artist or an entertainer rather than a musician. Does that have bad connotations in your mind?

Elvis was one of the best entertainers of all time.
Nobody would call him one of the best musicians of all time though would they.
.....and believe me, my parents were obsessed to the point that i bare his middle name as tribute......but even they agree with me.

"Writing commercial pop is hard?"
I could go into great detail here, but its best sumamrised by the following....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #40 –
This my mate Craig's band:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOIsj2eh8uk

Apart from writing the classic track, "Bruce Doull's got a new headband" (Bruce bought all of the records sold), Craig opened the batting with Bill Lawry at Northcote and played on Bobby Skilton in a practice match. 

Try telling Craig that he's not a musician!

“Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don’t you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?”  Oddball
 

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #41 –
Musician Rick Beato here talking about the decline in music quality and creativity. He kind of summarises much of what we've been discussing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bZ0OSEViyo
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #42 –
My apologies to everyone on the forum for keeping this going.  My last post on it.

Funnily enough, I thought that Krudds' you tube link was going to be - David Bennett Piano, Jack Black or Tripod - same premise, or Rick Beato.  Now because a three chord progression is common, it makes music easy to write. OK, off you go.  I'll give you the notes for free based on C Major - C chord is C E, G, F Chord is F, A, C, G CHord is G, B, D, with the G7th (F) thrown in to progress back to F then C.  Time signature is most likely to be 4 4 or common time.  4 bars of C, 2 of F, 2 of C, 1 of G, 1 of F, 2 of C.  But - there are 12 different keys to choose from just with this form, and the different keys give different tones/sounds - depth of register and person singing it/instruments playing it, mood of the song and other considerations.

An assertion was made that you can be an entertainer/artist or musician - not both - and need to meet 3 criteria to be a musician.  It is like you can't be an engineer if you don't do more than one discipline (eg civil only, you're not an engineer, you need electrical as well).  The stance is now the Elvis wasn't a great musician so there is a qualification.

 I have a feeling that the reference to modern music relates to current top 40, but as that wasn't defined the discussion has to be broader.

Music changes and evolves. We have developed our ears over centuries to cope with pianos being made out of tune - it's a physics wave length thing - and quite interesting.  We have developed instruments - valves on brass instruments started happening in the early 1800s - that made playing brass easier - wonder if older players back then thought it's too easy with valves.

There are some amazing bands/musos/songwriters that are mentioned by all and remembered in various threads when they have died.  Krudd - you say that you were listening to Nirvana when Spice Girls were shoved down our throats.  I was listening and discovering (to me) amazing New Orleans jazz - current and old and it's variants - blue grass etc while others were having Nirvana shoved down their throat.

As has been said, music is generational, subjective and personal.  Be broad minded about it, listen to stuff you don't normally - I often pick an artist or theme, spotify comes up with a playlist.  If it is an artist, I listen to them (eg This is Chris Isaak) and then listen to the next playlist (Chris Isaak Radio) - then you hear a whole heap of similar music by different artists, a lot that you don't know.  It is a rewarding thing - and leads to some great rabbit holes.

In the meantime, we can all laugh about Shut up your face being a number one in the 80s.





Re: The Music Thread

Reply #43 –
Couple of points that i'd like to straighten out as it appears to be lost amongst the generalising.

1. I never said musicians can't be entertainers as well.
I said there are plenty of entertainers and artists, that i wouldn't call musicians. Regards to Elvis, he was a great entertainer, but wasn't doing anything revolutionary with his guitar. As Chubbs' from Happy Gilmore would say....."It's all in the hips".

2. I wasn't specifically talking about top 40 (honestly, couldn't tell you whats on it as i don't listen to it), but the majority of this discussion was based around that....but it is a little broader than that.

3. I did say there were exceptions. I'm not talking about classical, jazz or anything too far outside of 'pop music' in terms of talents. Those guys (and girls.....and 'others') are true musicians. As mentioned originally, those guys don't need power to play and modify (read fix/imrpove upon) what they do. They qualify.

4. re Nirvana vs Spice Girls.....
It was about musical talent. Not about what you were listening too or avoiding.
The spice girls were pushed upon people (outside of their music) with ads, movies etc. All of this outside of music.....which is my point.

Re: The Music Thread

Reply #44 –
Amy Winehouse died in 2011, and I'd still probably have her the No.1 and most influential female artist of the 2000s!
"Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck ....... Ruck, ruck, ruck, ruck"