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Topic: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 17013 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #105 –
After the last 6 weeks of the season, we had little reason to believe we could win a final.  In all honestly, we barely deserved to be there.

What I do know is that, as per Einstein, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.  We talk about 'rolling the dice'. all we did as go back to the same old same old, only this time more underdone.

So there has to be some significant change or the window will close even faster than it already is.

Fact is, our system just does not develop players the way it should, so our young ones coming in are not prepared for senior footy.  Hence, we keep picking the same old names (even if they are carrying injuries) and wonder why yet another season has gone down the gurgler.  

We need a match committee that is prepared to try something different, and a reserves structure that gets the young ones ready.  

I watch the Hawthorn youngsters running around and their success stems from the fact that they were backed in by their coaching staff even when they were 0-5 at the start of the year, and they are now rolling on youthful enthusiasm.  We give our young ones 1 or 2 games, then drop them.  

Moir, Lord certainly deserved to be playing last night, and Cincotta being dropped was abysmal .  I can think of 6 or 7 players who got a game last night who let the jumper down in a huge way.

When you lose an elimination final by the 10-minute mark of the second quarter, big changes are needed.





This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #106 –
Quote from: tex – on
Amazing he gets paid $800k pa.
4th highest behind Cripps, Walsh, Weiters

Have to move him on

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #107 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
As I said pregame....
Cincotta kicks as many goals as our small forwards (when played forward, even defensively) but he can be played elsewhere as well.
Rotate him through the middle. Put him down back.
We lacked versatility from our small forwards and it hamstrung us.

And it really is no more complicated than that. And a few of us were adamant on just that, pre game.

It's one of those occasions when stats tell a story. We failed badly on tackles and efficiency inside 50. We had the same number of inside 50s as Brisvegas. Most other stats were competitive.

Most of knew, not 'thought' or had a hunch, that Motlop and Durdin did not have good form going into the game. Similar was Fantasia. We knew that Cinc was the perfect match-up for Zorko. Who tore us a new one and launched so many attacks from defense, especially early when the game is on the line? Zorko. He played with our small forwards... the out-of-form non-hackers.

When your forward line is dysfunctional, especially early, you just don't get scoreboard pressure... and with the scoreboard not ticking over the entire side gets no reward for effort... dopamine drained. Motivation sapped.

You never take low performing players into a game, let alone a final. Conversely, you bet on blokes with good form, regardless of age, experience or reputation.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #108 –
Quote from: tonyo – on
.....Fact is, our system just does not develop players the way it should, so our young ones coming in are not prepared for senior footy.  Hence, we keep picking the same old names (even if they are carrying injuries) and wonder why yet another season has gone down the gurgler. 

We need a match committee that is prepared to try something different, and a reserves structure that gets the young ones ready. 

I watch the Hawthorn youngsters running around and their success stems from the fact that they were backed in by their coaching staff even when they were 0-5 at the start of the year, and they are now rolling on youthful enthusiasm.  We give our young ones 1 or 2 games, then drop them. 

Moir, Lord certainly deserved to be playing last night, and Cincotta being dropped was abysmal .  I can think of 6 or 7 players who got a game last night who let the jumper down in a huge way.

When you lose an elimination final by the 10-minute mark of the second quarter, big changes are needed.

Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
The Hawthorn youngsters have been given lots of opportunities through the season...often against tougher opposition than  Lord (albeit only half a year) , Moir and Binns have experienced.

The Hawthorn mob are growing together and are ready to take on the challenge of finals.

Binns should really have a lot more than 3 games (one as sub) already.
Others like Lemmey should have at least been blooded.

The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #109 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
The Hawthorn youngsters have been given lots of opportunities through the season...often against tougher opposition than  Lord (albeit only half a year) , Moir and Binns have experienced.

The Hawthorn mob are growing together and are ready to take on the challenge of finals.

Binns should really have a lot more than 3 games (one as sub) already.
Others like Lemmey should have at least been blooded.

The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.



No greater risk than taking out of form players into any game.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #110 –
Was somewhere where I couldn't watch the game. Checking the scores gave me little incentive to find some place where I could. Watched the last twenty minutes where Carlton took off every time they had the ball and I was left wondering why we don't do this all the time. Cincotta and TDK should have been in the starting twenty-two, Durdin and Fantasia should not have. Voss needs to change his coaching philosophy. He needs to believe in the talent and he needs to unleash the talent and stop picking names and unbalanced sides.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #111 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
No greater risk than taking out of form players into any game.
Indeed, and then the youngsters gain some invaluable experience for the years ahead, instead of gifting a finals game to hacks who may not even be at the club next year.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #112 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
No.
But that's not what I would've done.

Keep hollands.

Choose any 2 smalls to go out.
I would've chosen durdin and fantasia to miss.

Tdk starts.
Moir is sub.

Cincotta comes in and cerra goes out.
Your last spot goes to either lord, carroll or binns. Probably Carroll but given he is likely to be going maybe go lord instead.

Ins: cincotta, moir lord/Carroll/binns
Outs: cerra, durdin, fantasia

We lose nothing from those changes but gain hope.

Do you really believe those changes would have made the difference in what was a smacking before our opposition clearly took the foot off our throat with nothing to gain. Its possible those changes see us lose by even more with the kids being scarred by a 15- 20 goal loss? Just because we will never know doesn't imply they are correct selections. The club needed to risk all to have any chance and when that fails of course you can argue what if they did this or that but the reality is we entered the finals in poor health and regardless who we picked as sub or at MC in this game we were cooked before the ball was bounced.

We need to be very active in the offseason and make a few ballsy decisions to improve on this year

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #113 –
CARLTON was meant to be going all in when it made six changes for Saturday night's elimination final, but the decision to pull back at the last moment and select Tom De Koning as the substitute ultimately cost them a winning hand.

The Blues were embarrassed in the first half of Saturday night's elimination final, conceding the first nine goals of the game and falling 60-points behind before they had even registered a score.

It shaped as the type of September loss that could scar a group, and De Koning was sitting on the bench waiting for his chance to make an impact until he was told to warm up early in the second quarter.

Injected into the game 11 minutes in, the 25-year-old was the reason Carlton was able to launch a mini-comeback either side of half-time, with the Blues kicking five unanswered goals and winning the second half by 20 points.

Through a quarter-and-a-half on the ground, De Koning had 10 influential possessions (seven contested) and was an immediately more effective and attacking option in the ruck. He had as many clearances as any teammate at the last change and was a crucial aerial presence down the line.

Ultimately, the Blues had to try something. Their 2-6 run to close the home-and-away season meant rolling into September in the same shape would have delivered the same results. The Blues were bold and rolled the dice. They should have gone all in when it came to De Koning.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #114 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
No greater risk than taking out of form players into any game.

Yep,  it's about the same risk.
And once you make a decision it's set in stone, and you live and die on the result.
If you lose, the "I told you so"s will come for you.
That's the chance you take.

But no-one really knows what 'might' have happened had we gone another way.
It's just a guess.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #115 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
…
The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.

YES! Absolutely this. More game time during the year - the few games they played showed they were eager and hungry. Exactly the qualities that were missing last night.

Can’t imagine the result would have been any worse but how valuable would such experience be going forward?

Completely disillusioned with the MC’s lack of imagination.
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #116 –
Quote from: Lods – on
So lets take out the worst -Williams, Durdin, Motlop and Ollie Hollands.

Substitute them with Lord, Moir, Binns and Cincotta.

Do we win?
Not if we start with the pissweak intensity we started with last night.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #117 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
60 -0, hardly went forward. Blame the small forwards.
Really???

Pittonet, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh got their butts kicked in that time. That was the ball game.
Glad you shot a few bambys this week, I wasn't game to.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #118 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Do you really believe those changes would have made the difference in what was a smacking before our opposition clearly took the foot off our throat with nothing to gain. Its possible those changes see us lose by even more with the kids being scarred by a 15- 20 goal loss? Just because we will never know doesn't imply they are correct selections. The club needed to risk all to have any chance and when that fails of course you can argue what if they did this or that but the reality is we entered the finals in poor health and regardless who we picked as sub or at MC in this game we were cooked before the ball was bounced.

We need to be very active in the offseason and make a few ballsy decisions to improve on this year

Would have made quite a difference  win or lose. Some pace and run from blokes 100% fit would not have seen a 60 to nil start. We had blokes underdone and half fit that, for that reason, couldn't get into the game when it was hot. Fit blokes make a big difference. You have been following footy long enough to know that, surely.

Re: AFL 2024 Elimination Final 1 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #119 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Not if we start with the pissweak intensity we started with last night.

And that's the main reason we were in the pickle we were in.
Lack of intensity, lack of pressure, playing as individuals rather than a team (see some of the blame game stuff that was going on).
When we straightened those things up we looked a lot better.