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Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #75 –
Quote from: pew2 – on
just hope that people at the club think of the whole 2023 year NOT just the two finals win , if we think that "how good we are won finals blah blah blah " we wont take the next step . words of TB12 now we have to work even harder to maintain the level .FINGERS CROSSED
Well if David King's observations of our training sessions is any indication, they have definitely stepped it up and have worked harder. Enjoy:
David King has spent the summer at AFL club training sessions, trying to get a gauge for how teams are progressing across the league.

Of all the sides he observed, the premiership Kangaroo says the most brutal session he saw was at Princes Park, lauding how the Blues have evolved over the last 12 months.

“This time last year, I wouldn’t have had Carlton anywhere near a top four position because of – not just the way they trained – they just didn’t look ready to be that team – they didn’t look rock hard fit, really mature, demanding of each other and the standards at training, whilst they were good, they weren’t top four good,” King told SEN Breakfast.

“The session I went to was a three-hour session, it was a brutal session and they trained like I spoke about Melbourne last year – full on contested, some old school stuff where the coach throws the ball back 1v1, get it back to the coach, go again, go again, go again.

“I haven’t seen that for 15 years and I thought it’s simple stuff, but it’s all about winning your own contest.

“That Carlton session was the toughest I’ve seen for a long time, not just at Carlton, but for a long time.”

King believes the Blues are seeking “icing on the cake” to take them from a top eight side into the premiership window.

He named Matt Cottrell, Elijah Hollands and Orazio Fantasia as some players who could provide some internal improvement.

“Matt Cottrell is going to be a very good AFL player. I thought he was going to be one of those guys that hover between your 21st picked player and your 30th picked player. He’s going to be a very good player,” King said.

“There’s a tall down there named Harry Lemmey who they took late in the draft a few seasons ago, didn’t know much about him, he had an outstanding session.

“Elijah Hollands, I’m telling you, he’ll have a really big impact on their ball-use and their poise with the footy, I know he’s going to miss the first two rounds, but he’ll make a big difference to Carlton.

“This time last year we were talking about Sam Walsh missing six weeks of footy, that’s not the case now.

“I don’t know if Orazio Fantasia plays or not … but if he plays 12 games, that’s what we’re talking about, they’re looking for the icing on the cake, Carlton.”
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #76 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
“This time last year, I wouldn’t have had Carlton anywhere near a top four position because of – not just the way they trained – they just didn’t look ready to be that team – they didn’t look rock hard fit, really mature, demanding of each other and the standards at training, whilst they were good, they weren’t top four good,” King told SEN Breakfast.

Where did we finish after finals? Top 4.

So David King is highlighting how little his opinion actually matters.

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #77 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Where did we finish after finals? Top 4.

So David King is highlighting how little his opinion actually matters.
He was bang on for half a year.  We didn't look likely until I left for Europe in June.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #78 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
He was bang on for half a year.  We didn't look likely until I left for Europe in June.
Thry if you (or anyone) had have told me we were going to go on a 9 game streak (or whatever it was) and make a Prelim I would have told you that you had rocks in your head.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #79 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
He was bang on for half a year.  We didn't look likely until I left for Europe in June.

My thoughts too Thry.  King’s pre-season assessment was damn close to the mark for the first half of the season.

This pre-season’s training is closer to our second half of the season.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #80 –
Quote from: DJC – on
My thoughts too Thry.  King’s pre-season assessment was damn close to the mark for the first half of the season.

This pre-season’s training is closer to our second half of the season.
He was simply talking about intensity and brutality (old school contested) not seen in a very long time. I think he was referring to preseason training translating into the season. I like the sound of that.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #81 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Where did we finish after finals? Top 4.

So David King is highlighting how little his opinion actually matters.

I think he’s saying we were ordinary this time last year but then lifted our intensity and game during the season… I’m not sure why you don’t agree ?
Let’s go BIG !

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #82 –
I'm glad I don't have to pick a side for round 1. Barring a couple of serious injuries (SOS and Weiters), everyone appears to be  "flying" in the pre-season training. There are going to be so many spots/positions being competed for by multiple players. Several  positions have players who make it their own:
C: Cripps
FF: Charlie
CHF: H
Ruck: TDK Cerra Walsh
Wing: Acres owns one wing
HFF: Martin (one HFF is his)
FP: Motlop (one fwd pocket is his)
HBF or CHB: Gov as the intercepting defender
BP: Saady owns one back pocket

The remaining positions have multiple plays fighting for the spots. Starting from the back:

FB: Young or S Durdin
BP: Newman, Cincotta or Cowin
HBF: Williams or Boyd
CHB: Marchy or Kemp
The other wing: Ollie, Cotts or Doc
The other HFF: Cunners or Fog
The other FP: Durds or Razzle Dazzle

The bench becomes a nightmare, I Assume Pitto takes up one spot. That leaves three and the sub for all the mulitples mentioned above plus blokes like Jack Carroll, Binnsy, the newbys.

I have a headache.


2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #83 –
IMO, we should try and do what we should've done last time against them and pick a smaller quicker side.
IMO, the smalls ran rings around us.

That is, 1 ruck.

FB - Newman {Option a} Saad
HB - Kemp McGovern Cincotta
C  - Docherty Cripps Acres
HF - Martin Curnow Cuningham
FF - Motlop McKay Fantasia
R - De Koning Cerra Walsh
INT - Hewitt Cottrell O.Hollands Williams
Sub - {option b}

{option a} is either Marchbank or Young
Marchbank played well against them last time, but we did have Weitering around to play on Daniher which we won't this time.
We also don't have a backup ruck to help out TDK, so Young might get a gig based on that.....simply because of the opposition.

{option b} is either C. Durdin or E. Hollands
My preference if for Durdin, but that is largely down to me not knowing where E. Hollands is at in terms of form, fitness and positioning.

We need to go back to what was our strength when we went on our string of wins.....and that was our run and pressure. We went too tall and slow against Lions and it cost us. So lets fix that.

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #84 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I'm glad I don't have to pick a side for round 1. Barring a couple of serious injuries (SOS and Weiters), everyone appears to be  "flying" in the pre-season training. There are going to be so many spots/positions being competed for by multiple players. Several  positions have players who make it their own:
C: Cripps
FF: Charlie
CHF: H
Ruck: TDK Cerra Walsh
Wing: Acres owns one wing
HFF: Martin (one HFF is his)
FP: Motlop (one fwd pocket is his)
HBF or CHB: Gov as the intercepting defender
BP: Saady owns one back pocket

The remaining positions have multiple plays fighting for the spots. Starting from the back:

FB: Young or S Durdin
BP: Newman, Cincotta or Cowin
HBF: Williams or Boyd
CHB: Marchy or Kemp
The other wing: Ollie, Cotts or Doc
The other HFF: Cunners or Fog
The other FP: Durds or Razzle Dazzle

The bench becomes a nightmare, I Assume Pitto takes up one spot. That leaves three and the sub for all the mulitples mentioned above plus blokes like Jack Carroll, Binnsy, the newbys.

I have a headache.

And it's going to get even harder when Weiters is back, Hollands, E is available and the newbies start pressing for a spot!

It's virtually set in stone that we'll go with two rucks and De Koning will rest forward as a third tall or giving Harry or Charlie a breather.  It's also clear that Docherty will play forward and in the midfield and Cottrell will play mainly as a forward ... and I expect that he'll be picked before Cuningham and Fogarty. 

I think that Newman has cemented a place in defence and, in Weitering's absence, Young has to play (unless he has a shocker of a pre-season).  That gives us Saad, Young, Newman and McGovern pencilled in and Kemp, Williams, Marchbank, Cincotta, Durdin, S, Cowan, and Boyd fighting for the remaining three spots.  Apparently young Binnsy is earmarked to play in defence this season so that's another one to add to the mix.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #85 –
Quote from: DJC – on
And it's going to get even harder when Weiters is back, Hollands, E is available and the newbies start pressing for a spot!

It's virtually set in stone that we'll go with two rucks and De Koning will rest forward as a third tall or giving Harry or Charlie a breather.  It's also clear that Docherty will play forward and in the midfield and Cottrell will play mainly as a forward ... and I expect that he'll be picked before Cuningham and Fogarty. 

I think that Newman has cemented a place in defence and, in Weitering's absence, Young has to play (unless he has a shocker of a pre-season).  That gives us Saad, Young, Newman and McGovern pencilled in and Kemp, Williams, Marchbank, Cincotta, Durdin, S, Cowan, and Boyd fighting for the remaining three spots.  Apparently young Binnsy is earmarked to play in defence this season so that's another one to add to the mix.
Another way to look at it is to have a a look at the 2023 PF side which did very well and ask how does it get improved or tweaked
2023 PF team
FB Boyd Weitering Saad      
HB Newman Marchbank McGovern
C Docherty Cripps Acres
R Pittonet Cerra Walsh
HF Martin McKay Cottrell
FF De Koning Curnow Motlop
INT Hollands O Hewitt Fogarty Cincotta Kennedy(s)

*From memory they started with Pitt and TDK on the ground at the opening bounce. Whether they go with that is the norm remains to be seen.

2024 Rnd 1 (bold = position "owned" in my view ad for the sake of this discussion.
FB Boyd/Williams Weitering Young Saad
HB Newman Marchbank/Kemp/Durdin S McGovern
C Docherty/Hollands O Cripps Acres
R De Koning Cerra Walsh
HF Martin McKay Cottrell/Cunninghan
FF Durdin C/Fantasia Curnow Motlop
INT Pittonet Hewitt Fogarty Cincotta/Cowin Kennedy

As you mention, Weiters will walk in, haven't factored E Hollands.
Its easy when you have injuries (which in the past has been our standard fare, but if they all come off strong PS's, it will be a mighty task indeed for the MC.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
 

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #86 –
One thing about David King’s assessment is that he’s neutral and doesn’t have our supporters’ biases or favourite players.  Four players he mentioned are:

Cottrell has gone from a fringe player to best 22.

Elijah Hollands will play midfield and will have an impact.

Lemmey is impressive (but who does he displace?).

Fantasia is a depth player who might manage a dozen games later in the season.

It seems that Crippa is mentoring Lij and that should help to move his footy up a notch.

There will be a lot of very capable footballers missing out in opening round, a lot of us scratching our head and, most importantly, a lot of pressure on the blokes in the 23 to perform.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #87 –
Quote from: DJC – on
One thing about David King’s assessment is that he’s neutral and doesn’t have our supporters’ biases or favourite players.  Four players he mentioned are:

Cottrell has gone from a fringe player to best 22.

Elijah Hollands will play midfield and will have an impact.

Lemmey is impressive (but who does he displace?).

Fantasia is a depth player who might manage a dozen games later in the season.

It seems that Crippa is mentoring Lij and that should help to move his footy up a notch.

There will be a lot of very capable footballers missing out in opening round, a lot of us scratching our head and, most importantly, a lot of pressure on the blokes in the 23 to perform.
Its a good problem to have.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #88 –
....And no matter what we think, the folks doing the selections have much more idea about positioning, matchups, and current development and readiness than any of us. ;)  :D

Re: Carlton 2024 Predictions / Expectations

Reply #89 –
Quote from: Lods – on
....And no matter what we think, the folks doing the selections have much more idea about positioning, matchups, and current development and readiness than any of us. ;)  :D

I’m not so sure about that 🤣
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!