Weight Loss Drugs

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Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #15 – November 13, 2023, 04:25:39 pm

Quote from: DJC – on November 13, 2023, 03:39:31 pm

One of the compounds in Ozempic affects the hunger centres in the brain and that reduces hunger, appetite and cravings. It also slows the rate that the stomach empties. That prolongs the feeling of fullness after meals.

People using Ozempic generally experience very modest weight loss as they eat slightly less than normal.

A young fellow I know recently had the gastric banding procedure. He has dropped almost 50kg from way north of 200kg in a couple of months. His energy levels are good and he has the all clear to exercise fully. For him, that’s walking, speedball, skipping, etc.

Ozempic would have done nothing for him.

I've got a couple of friends who have had the gastric banding and the weight has just fallen off them. They physically cannot each as much which has worked wonders. No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.

From what you've said, as well as Cookie, it appears this is different to what i've heard of previously.....which is a good thing.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #16 – November 13, 2023, 04:35:21 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on November 13, 2023, 04:25:39 pm

I've got a couple of friends who have had the gastric banding and the weight has just fallen off them. They physically cannot each as much which has worked wonders. No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.

From what you've said, as well as Cookie, it appears this is different to what i've heard of previously.....which is a good thing.

Yes. I also experienced some moderate weight loss, about 5kg over approx 6 weeks. I'll probably put that back now!

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #17 – November 13, 2023, 05:10:24 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on November 13, 2023, 04:25:39 pm

No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.

It may be a low blood pressure issue having lost weight.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine, lost 60kg down from 150kg to 90kg then developed fainting spells. Of course at 150kg he had high blood pressure and was put on beta blockers, which they didn't adjust after he got down to 90kg. It wasn't until he started monitoring his BP at home daily they worked out it was unstable, they adjusted his meds and now he's all good.

The thing is those kids taking Ozempic do not realise that you apparently are time limited on how long you can stay on the high weight loss dose. So if you do not make adjustments to lifestyle or diet while you getting the benefit chances are the effort will be undone when you come off. Also there is a lower long term "housekeeping" dose but it costs as much as the weight loss dose even though it's only about 20% of the full dose. If you do not have diabetes you'll pay $300 - $400 a month forever, high or low dose, so changing lifestyle and diet should be a big feature of a course!

Ozempic and Wegovy slam your metabolism, if you are previously monitored your HR and BP those it works for will find both up about 15%, which ironically delivers about a 15% weight loss. There is some irony taking this if you are a cardiac patient, because you are probably already on a medication to slow your heart rate and reduce BP. So it should be done under extreme medical supervision.

Because the drugs weight loss is 15% from everywhere there are high risks for people who are just a little overweight or already slim and use it to shred, the healthy fat stores around livers, kidneys and heart might already be low even for some obese people. Lose too much of that healthy fat layer and it can be terminal, your organs are basically starving even though you appear healthy!

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #18 – November 13, 2023, 05:48:08 pm

Quote from: LP – on November 13, 2023, 05:10:24 pm

It may be a low blood pressure issue having lost weight.

The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine, lost 60kg down from 150kg to 90kg then developed fainting spells. Of course at 150kg he had high blood pressure and was put on beta blockers, which they didn't adjust after he got down to 90kg. It wasn't until he started monitoring his BP at home daily they worked out it was unstable, they adjusted his meds and now he's all good.

The thing is those kids taking Ozempic do not realise that you apparently are time limited on how long you can stay on the high weight loss dose. So if you do not make adjustments to lifestyle or diet while you getting the benefit chances are the effort will be undone when you come off. Also there is a lower long term "housekeeping" dose but it costs as much as the weight loss dose even though it's only about 20% of the full dose. If you do not have diabetes you'll pay $300 - $400 a month forever, high or low dose, so changing lifestyle and diet should be a big feature of a course!

Ozempic and Wegovy slam your metabolism, if you are previously monitored your HR and BP those it works for will find both up about 15%, which ironically delivers about a 15% weight loss. There is some irony taking this if you are a cardiac patient, because you are probably already on a medication to slow your heart rate and reduce BP. So it should be done under extreme medical supervision.

Because the drugs weight loss is 15% from everywhere there are high risks for people who are just a little overweight or already slim and use it to shred, the healthy fat stores around livers, kidneys and heart might already be low even for some obese people. Lose too much of that healthy fat layer and it can be terminal, your organs are basically starving even though you appear healthy!

There isn't an Ozempic "high weight loss dose". It starts with a weekly 0.25mg dose that, subject to your doctor's approval, increases to 0.5mg in week 5. Higher doses - up to 2mg - can be administered or your doctor can reduce the dosage depending the patient's blood sugar levels, vital signs and/or side effects. Ozempic can improve blood sugar levels in Type 2 diabetics provided its use is accompanied by an approriate diet and exercise regime. One of the side effects of Ozempic can be mild weight loss. Its use does not result in dramatic weight loss.

Wegovy is the weight loss drug made by the same company. It contains the same active ingredient but in a much higher dosage. Apart from that, I don't know anything about Wegovy.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #19 – November 14, 2023, 08:24:31 am

When a functional dose can vary from 0.25mg to 2.0mg, an 8x factor, I'd call 2mg high no matter how small the real world amount.

Wegovy, Ozempic, Saxenda and one other drug are a family of medicines that can be effective in suppressing appetite. They are generally administered via autopen type injectors.

There are varying regimes, some are daily injections others weekly.

Unlike diabetics that can get a health benefit side-effect of reduced heart disease, misuse of these drugs in healthy individuals can have a paradoxical effect and cause heart disease or other serious side effects.

For non-diabetic weight loss most regimes start with gradually increasing dosages, starting at the lowest to evaluate tolerance, then stepping up to the highest levels which are the only does associated with weight loss. It takes about 14 weeks to get to the high dose safely, and if you are non-diabetic you'll only be allowed to stay on that high for a maximum of two years because of the risks. This seems like a long time, it seems like plenty of time, but some of these drugs will have no effect on weight for the first six to eight months.

The media is using Ozempic like a generic term, but the issues being discussed are really Wegovy, Ozempic, Saxenda and one other drug.

Most come in a range of dispensers / autopens with varying needle gauges from 32 down to 36.

Ozempic

Ozempic for example historically came in only two sizes, 2mg(4x0.5mg) and 8mg(4x2.0mg), but they have now introduced a 4mg(4x1.0mg). For many diabetic regimes the long term dose might be between 0.25mg and 1.0mg, with 0.5mg being the most common, the pen dose being adjustable up to the stated maximum. For diabetes doctors will only move patients to the highest pen if needed, for weight loss the highest is the only functional dose level and as such a requirement.

If you are non-diabetic at the high 2mg dose you will be subject to a strict regime of monitoring, as the long term risks to internal organs and cardiovascular system is significant. If you are diabetic your already under heavy monitoring, and you already carry significantly increased risk which is why you get a net benefit regardless.

Some will think just buy the 8mg pen and use low doses, but you shouldn't have a 8mg pen for low doses for two reasons, the device is not as accurate at very low doses, and the product efficacy drops off rapidly beyond about 8 weeks keeping in mind it could already be weeks old when you get it. In any case, for weight loss the low dose does nothing, so you get increased risk and no benefit.

Some Norbit somewhere will claim well I'm not diabetic so the diminished efficacy makes no difference, but you risk being on a dose rollercoaster and that can have disastrous effects. It would be like having shots of water and someone slowly blends in vodka instead, or the reverse!

The limited shelf life is the primary issue with supply, the problem isn't that they can't make enough of the stuff, the problem is they can't store it for long enough to avoid waste.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #20 – November 14, 2023, 07:54:00 pm

I have been monitored for fatty liver disease since a portal vein clot was discovered during a kidney stone episode 3 years ago. I see a liver specialist and a haematologist every 6 months and have US's to check on the clot.
As part of the liver monitoring, I was offered to go on a clinical trial of a "diabetes" drug at the hospita to see if it could help my liver disease however after reading the documentation, I declined because it was far too onerous for me and there was no guarantee I'd get the drug or a placebo. Speaking to my GP, he suggested I go on Ozempic in an effort to see if it could help the fatty liver disease, after some lengthy consideration (I had difficulty coming to terms with using a drug diabetics needed maybe more than me), I agreed to try it. I started on the lowest dose and it actually made me hungrier! As the dose was increased, I started to feel unwell to the point where I experienced the most severe diarrhoea and nausea I haver ever experienced which lasted for 2.5 weeks. I ditched the Ozempic as soon as I started with the side effect symptoms as I suspected it was the problem as opposed to a Gastro bug. My GP agreed I should cease its use immediately and eventually, things returned to normal.
Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #21 – November 14, 2023, 08:01:20 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on November 14, 2023, 07:54:00 pm

I have been monitored for fatty liver disease since a portal vein clot was discovered during a kidney stone episode 3 years ago. I see a liver specialist and a haematologist every 6 months and have US's to check on the clot.
As part of the liver monitoring, I was offered to go on a clinical trial of a "diabetes" drug at the hospita to see if it could help my liver disease however after reading the documentation, I declined because it was far too onerous for me and there was no guarantee I'd get the drug or a placebo. Speaking to my GP, he suggested I go on Ozempic in an effort to see if it could help the fatty liver disease, after some lengthy consideration (I had difficulty coming to terms with using a drug diabetics needed maybe more than me), I agreed to try it. I started on the lowest dose and it actually made me hungrier! As the dose was increased, I started to feel unwell to the point where I experienced the most severe diarrhoea and nausea I haver ever experienced which lasted for 2.5 weeks. I ditched the Ozempic as soon as I started with the side effect symptoms as I suspected it was the problem as opposed to a Gastro bug. My GP agreed I should cease its use immediately and eventually, things returned to normal.
Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.

The list of Ozempic's side effects is quite formidable and it certainly isn't for everyone.

That does sound like a very unpleasant ordeal G2C.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #22 – November 14, 2023, 10:57:46 pm

Listen to us oldies! I am a type 2 diabetic and was given a new drug to reduce the insulin I need to take and they seem to stress the side effects (diarrhoea, vomiting, nausea) and to stop taken it immediately if you get any effects. As I didn't really want that, I asked what the likelihood of side effects were and was told about 5% of patients, but there is no of of knowing what the triggers are.

I was a bit nervous, but everything was fine. I suppose they have to warn about side effects.

I do get slight nausea when blood pressure drops too low (rare).

Certainly sympathies to those who do cop the side effects.

Re: Weight Loss Drugs

Reply #23 – November 15, 2023, 08:10:40 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on November 14, 2023, 07:54:00 pm

Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.

Yep, it can have quite nasty side effects, swollen lump glands, heart palpitations, kidney, pancreas and liver issues.

I was put on it about 4/5 years ago for very similar reasons to yourself, after getting a stent the cardiologist referred me to an endo to see if they could do anything about excess fatty tissue around internal organs. I wasn't that overweight, didn't have diabetes, my cholesterol and BP was OK, but for some reason I had a build up of the bad fats around internal organs. Luckily I was in the 50% that it worked for, I had some side-effects but lost 13% of my body weight and importantly the fat around internal organs diminished significantly. All the time I was on it, which was just short of 2 years, I had blood tests every 8 weeks looking at 34 different indicators. I've been off it for 2 years, and I have put back about 3% of that weight, but importantly so far my regular Ultrasounds look good.

But hands down this stuff is a medicine, not a beauty therapy as it is being used by some, and regardless of whether you use it correctly or incorrectly it can deliver the worst side-effect of all!